Dear Readers, as I explained in the intro to this blog ‘chapter’, near the end of 2020, the topic of karma came crashing into my contemplations, and I decided that rather than my usual M.O. — box it up and bury it for later — I would finally take the topic of karma on head-on. Once again, Mae Neecha was a massive help to me: She was a guide, a teacher, a sounding-board, a conversation partner, and a ‘fact checker’ all rolled into one, amazing, Kalyanamitra . Because it pretty much captures my contemplations ‘real time’, I will once again (much as I did with my aha moments on rupa following the 2019 retreat) break our conversation into ‘bite-sized bits’ and share our Line Chat, over the course of a few blog entries, more or less intact as a transcript, with a few alterations for clarity. So hold on, the train is about to embark on the karma line (…ugh, I know, I just couldn’t resist the pun though)…
So, as a little refresher here, I had been addressing the topic of beauty, but couldn’t quite get the clarity I wanted on what particular causes might result in being a super model beauty versus a hunchback ugly. I chalked it up to my “karma black box/total blind spot.” And asked Mae Neecha for hints…and so the journey began:
MN: Hints? Try looking at karma in terms of short term (doing something in this lifetime and seeing the results in this lifetime) vs long term (doing something in another lifetime and seeing the results in this lifetime or a future lifetime). Mae Yo always recommends whenever you want to know something that cannot be easily known, to draw a parallel to something that we can know in this world. The general rules governing the entire world, which means the 3 Realms, are the same
AD: I don’t know, this is so hard for me…when I think about beauty, one thing that stands out is effort. Compared to many of my friends from school, I have stayed fitter and more beautiful because I put a lot of time and effort into it. I also have financial resources I can direct towards my beauty tools, efforts and helpers — part of the reason for my success then is intention and energy.
When I look at friends even more able to retain beauty, they are 2 trainers who put even more effort in than me. Fitness and beautiful movement are their livelihoods. But I guess I just feel like to be born beautiful you need to be ‘good’ or ‘blessed’ somehow.
Much like being born rich, I look at my dad and Eric both, who grew up pretty poor and got rich. Both of them share a willingness to effort. And a willingness to problem-solve and quickly course correct to meet their goals.
Or maybe, because I am an effort-full person it is biasing my reading of the causes of these successes.
MN: Maybe this will help. Karma is both results of karma/past life actions we can’t see (I don’t know why I was born with X and not with Y), and actions we can see (I have A because I did B in present life). For instance, maybe you don’t know why you were born poor, but you can know why you lost money in this lifetime – because you gambled it all away or you joined a business venture that didn’t accurately predict market conditions.
But the concept is basically the same. So, if we can see how present actions lead to present results works in relation to this beauty topic in the present life, we can extrapolate past life to present results as well.
AD: Ok, I had a super fit body in my 30s because I worked out 3 hours a day. Now I have a medium fit body cause I at least work out 5 days a week.
I have retained more beauty relative to my age than many folks because I have taken care of my skin, been careful about sunscreen? I think for Eric and money, he has just been able to work so hard and adjust so much and learn what people want from him, what they will pay for and deliver.
I am still seeing the side of having consequence informed by the effort born of wanting. Fixating on that thing I want in order to get it.
Or the other side, getting what I don’t want as a consequence of some behavior: I used to smoke and I am getting those lip lines, a consequence of the reckless behavior of smoking. But also, I can’t sperate this observation from understanding that, to some degree, it is just the nature of Rupa to age and change, for lines on the skin to appear.
OK, lets try again: Eric and I lost a bunch of money on the house we bought in NY. We rushed into it. Made a rash decision based on what we imagined it would be like. We didn’t weigh and measure and info gather.
QQ: What does losing money on a business venture that doesn’t accidently predict market conditions say about karma? In my mind, this is the sand problem. The fact that you really can’t ever know what will happen in tomorrow’s market. Then again, my brother tried to start a business and failed. I love him, but the whole thing felt like he just believed he knew best and others would follow him. He didn’t really evaluate the way the business he went into worked. The kind of expertise folks looked for in order to invest. There was hubris.
Ok, when I think about it, my dad made his money because people liked working with him. He had good relationships to his bosses. His employees liked working for him. He was someone who took time to mentor and he was well known to give a chance to women and minorities at a time that was not so common. As a result he had a number of people very loyal to him. They helped him succeed, get promoted and make money.
Likewise, when I wanted my own old job back, even with a weird schedule and semi remote thing, I got it because I always worked hard, I was dependable and I took pride in the organization and my own contributions to it. I also have a very good relationship with my boss, I went out of my way to adapt to her and get on her good side and position myself as valuable.
Still not sure about beauty.
Still, I see there are obviously causes. Things folks do that get them success or sets up failure. But this feels unsatisfactory.
MN: It follows the same pattern
AD: OK, I have recruited Eric into this effort. Here is our collective take:
Eric got rich because he believes the reward of money is worth his effort and boy oh boy does he effort. In addition, he has learned and adapted on the way in order to up the chances of his success. He was just saying back at Google he hated managers that yelled at him. He has learned not to tell at his subordinates. Those better relationships help him succeed.
Eric said he watched a masterclass by a fashion designer and something he said really resonated: He said the reason many folks aren’t successful at being fashionable is they think they can only be 10 percent more fashionable, and they don’t think the effort is worth the small percentage success. They give up. But if it is like that, slowly 10 percent at a time you build, you grow. Money, or fashion or beauty.
A few extra minutes on makeup. Learning new face massage techniques. Working out and going for botox. You think it is worth it. So you do, you build on success. You watch what others do and adapt. There is intention, effort adaptiveness and resourcefulness all based on the desire/ sense of worthitness of the reward of the pursuit.
As Eric said, he may have started in this life with more raw material than most — smart, persistent, perceptive. But each of these are traits, plus more, have increased and with it so has his success.
So is this it, the process of becoming a desirable trait? Clearly it is necessary, but not sufficient, what about penalties? Where is the smack down for naughtiness that are all over the precautionary jatikas that try to tell you not to be a dick, or cheat, or be murdery?
How does this tie to the rather quaint notion that folks who keep precepts will be beautiful?
Eric and I looked at the 10 paramitas together. He thinks that they are the checklist to any gain you want to make. Half of them hunker down and persist. A few planting seeds of kindness and endearment so others help. A couple don’t be a dick ones to avoid the vengeful pit falls or running afoul of law pitfalls. I think he is right. Which would mean the traits that get you worldly cookies are also the traits that get you Dhamma cookies. Hum…
Ok, I am still stuck on the retribution side. I was watching the Isidasi Theri story online, I am trying to follow the how’s and why’s of her punishment rebirths and I just can’t get there. I see in 1 life she/ he is a player and then goes to hell. Then has a bunch of castration rebirths. Then, not learning her lesson not to be a home wrecker, tries to overthrow a first wife to become favorite and finally gets born beautiful and proper but rejected by all husband’s. At least on the home wrecker side ( not clear on the hell’s or castration) she is getting exactly what she gave. I just don’t understand why? What is the mechanism here? This feels so much less clear cut then I workout therefore get ripped…
Anyway, on a different aspects of all this, it seems that success, ‘good karma’s is all delivered through the medium of Rupa — wealth, beauty, health. Looking back on my chain of crazy, it does relate. If I am hungry and decide somehow Rupa will satiate me that is the cause of all my effortfulness to build the Rupa stash of things I believe are worth it, will satiate me. If Eric works and builds 10 percent at a time for money, me for beauty, across many lives with persistence, and we achieve it, we only do so because of the tenacity of the wrong view we held in the first place that these things will satisfy us. I’m going on a limb here, it is late, but does that mean even what I would call the results of good karma is born of wrong views?
Ok, also on things about karma that make no sense to me. Khujjuttarā is said to get her wisdom from a life she offers bracelets to a pacceka Buddha to help him while he struggles to handle a hot bowl. How is this the cause of sharp wisdom?
I suppose if karma is like a video game, I get the basics, you start from nothing, build skills and tools. Play levels again and again till you improve enough to beat them. Dying when you lose focus. Not progressing when you don’t have forbearance.
But I don’t get the whammies that send you back to the start just for hitting them. I don’t get the warps. Or the special power ups that seem to just fall from the sky. It frustrates me because I feel like I don’t really understand how this all works and I hate being left with the ‘Oh, it’s just magic feeling’ when I know darn well magic is just science I don’t understand yet…